we can't expect america with all its economic and other problems and with afghanistan to pull our chestnuts out of the fire. >> rose: but on the question of nato, secretary gates suggested as much. >> rose: indeed. indeed. witness again, you know, a few weeks of military action on a very small scale in libya... >> rose: and all of a sudden... >> and we're running out of munitions and turning back to the united states as t land of last rest. but look, frankly, the military action in libya which i supported, reluctantly but i supported, i actually a sideshow. the big question is can you turn egypt which had been historically at the heart of islamic culture and scholarship into a model and a beacon for threst of the arab world in. >> rose: and your answer is likely? unlikely? too soon to tell? >> look, i mean, there's amaze pog ten nshl egypt and then a highly educated young people, a strong middle-class, a great sense of history and tradition. but it could all go pear shaped between armyn the one hand which is now proving an unam big rouse friend of liberal democracy and the muslim brotherhoo